SharkHawk wrote:theENGLISHseahawk wrote:SharkHawk wrote:Te'o isn't known for his brilliance. I could tell you the story about his official visit to BYU (and a few others), but I won't since it's been a few years and I'll assume he's grown up some. His family isn't full of bright bulbs either. I can only imagine what would have happened had he kept his commitment to BYU and been lined up opposite of Kyle Van Noy. The plan was to have them play together for 4 years. Van Noy got arrested and redshirted a year. Te'o just did some terribly stupid things and then backed out on or had his offer rescinded (depending on who you ask). It wasn't a high point for college visits though. Hopefully he's turned the corner and makes better decisions. I'm not judging the guy. I love him and stick with him and hope he does really well every week (except when he played byu), but if he hasn't grown up a TON then he's going to have a really difficult adjustment to the NFL.
In my view Van Noy is every bit the player Te'o is. If he had gone to BYU you wouldn't be hearing Heisman talk on Manti, but if Kyle had gone to a PAC 10 (12) school or Notre Dame I think you'd be hearing the same talk about him that you're hearing about Manti now.
Can you shed more light on the issues for those of us interested in learning more about Te'o?
Nah, I shouldn't say too much. I can link you to some people's "reports" on what all took place. It wasn't good for Manti and he didn't show a lot of maturity. It isn't anything that would ruin a kid's draft status I don't think. He and his cousins are just universally known for doing stupid crap (he has a cousin that committed to BYU the same weekend he did that is the BIGGEST moron on the face of the earth... seriously... he has already been kicked out of two schools and lost two full ride scholarships). I think that is one of the main reasons he wanted to go to Notre Dame... to get away from a lot of the influences around him. Hawaii is an interesting place. The culture is interesting. Samoa and Tonga and Fiji as well. They play an important part in the history of my religion. His name (Manti) actually comes from the Book of Mormon, as do many of the polynesian names. The culture is ancient and strong and amazing. Don't get me wrong here in how this comes out. But there are also problems when the culture and the way things have been done for thousands of years conflict with modern day norms, values, mores, whatever you want to call them. Sometimes the island kids get together here at BYU and the U of Utah and things just get bad fast.
The majority of my friends and family are either black or polynesian, but I can see the reality of what goes on. There are events I've been to (like weddings) where full on gang-wars were ready to erupt. We've got a massive Island population here, and guys get together and do really really dumb stuff.
This wasn't Manti, but several years ago a cousin signed a letter of intent and was set to enroll in school the next day. He and his friends went for a drive. One remembered he hated this guy whose house they were near (right by my home). So thy saw him on the porch and shot and killed him. 5 young men went to prison. The kid who was riding in the car got 5 years and of course lost his scholly for "aiding and abetting" and "evading". He saw it happen and just ran for it. It scared the heck out of him. On their own, none of those boys would have killed that man. Together, it was like a natural thing to drive up and blow his head off. So messed up. The young man served 3 years and went on to play JC football and got an associates degree and has done ok in life.
Manti is one of those kids that was impressionable in high school. I think now it's more that he MAKES the impression and it's good. I think he got here and wanted to impress his cousins and did some flat out stupid crap that I think he probably really regrets now. If you were a GM though, you wouldn't think twice about it. The fact that it was BYU and he was the #1 Mormon athlete at the time put him under a huge microscope. Just like what Jabari Parker is going through right now. He's being called the next Jordan, the next Kobe, the next LeBron, etc. and he's trying to stay true to his faith and talk about his goals in life and what he wants to do, and gets a TON of pressure on him. That's what happened to Manti. He didn't handle it as well as I would have hoped, but I'm sure he would now. If I had a chance to draft him, I would. Sometimes being the "spokesperson" for a group is hard. Stanley Havili went through the same thing and so did Haloti Ngata. Both backed out on their BYU scholarships at the last moment and went to USC and U of O respectively, because they felt it would be less pressure on them from the religious standpoint, and that they'd get more chance at an NFL career (which is hooey.... good players get a chance no matter where they go... Ngata would have been a first rounder had he gone to BYU as well... going to BYU didn't hurt Dennis Pitta's draft standing).
Anyway, I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I just felt like piping up because I like Manti, I support him, I love his family, but a few of those family members are knuckleheads and always want to be around causing crap and I hope he stays strong and continues to stay away from it as he's done so well while in college.
CPHawk wrote:It's not witty when you state a fact. BYU might win 1 out of 100 recruiting battles with Oregon. If what you say is fact, then I know for a fact BYU would have tipped the NCAA off a long time ago to this.
CPHawk wrote:SuperHawks wrote:CPHawk wrote:Teo is only in the conversation for a heisman because he is at ND. Put him anywhere else and he wouldn't even get a vote.
I've seen plenty of absolutely ridiculous things on here over the years but this has got to be near the top.
Really? How many votes did Clay Mathews get or any of the other studs from SC over the years? All IMO just as good as Teo. If he played for UW he would be 12th in the vote, but thanks to the media always getting on their knees for all things ND he is now a leader for the Heisman.
Just in the SEC there are 2-3 LB I would take over him.
SharkHawk wrote:For the record. I never said anybody paid Ngata, nor did I even insinuate it. I said it was similar to Cam Newton. I don't recall anybody ever paying him, but I do recall people working on "his behalf". This is a big gray area in the NCAA and it was the first time I saw such a situation personally and it was quite interesting to see if the NCAA would take action. They didn't. I'm not going to fight about it. But BYU has gotten several #1 recruits over the years, including Ben Olsen (who left), Jake Heaps (who left), and had Ngata commit. They were all 3 ranked as 5 star recruits and #1 in their positional group in the nation by at least 1 service.
As I said... BYU has changed their recruiting. They want guys that want to be there. They average 10 wins a year, which isn't bad for a school that typically plays a difficult schedule, and has had to scramble in recruiting. They did have Stanford's QB leave and come to BYU (Taysom Hill) and he looks like quite a player. They also had Kaveinga leave USC to come to BYU, as well as Max Hall left ASU to attend BYU and several others. Things are weird there because of those who choose to go on missions and it sometimes opens up slots at the last minute, or they lose players who up and decide to go on missions at the last second.
Luke Staley was a very big recruit, as was Kevin Gilbride Jr., Brandon Doman (was offered the starting QB job at Notre Dame), and I could honestly go on and on. They out recruit any other school that has the limitations and rules they have, and it is really quite an interesting place. Ngata is a good guy by the way. I've never heard anything but positive about him from day 1. His cousin Manaia Brown was also a #1 recruit in the region 2 years before, went to Nebraska, hated it and came back to BYU and played 2 seasons. By my last count, BYU has lost 2 players to Oregon that they were seriously recruiting. One was Ngata. One was another kid whose name I am forgetting who went there the year prior to Ngata.
Both players were told that they could serve their church missions, and they both planned to. Then Bellotti told both of them that their scholarships wouldn't be waiting for them when they returned. This is precisely what happened to Taysom Hill at Stanford, Max Hall at Arizona State, and Stanley Havili at USC. In the case of Hill and Hall it backfired on their coaching staffs, because BYU had room for both. In the case of Olsen it was pretty bad, because he kept confirming he was still committed to BYU, and then came home and immediately signed with UCLA (which is ok by NCAA rules, as they are considered "re-recruitable" as they've been gone for 18+ months). So BYU is constantly flipping scholarships here and there.
One thing about them that I respect a great deal though is that they do NOT rescind scholarships (meaning they don't dump guys and remove their scholarships by overrecruiting every year like some schools). If they give a kid a scholarship and he stays in school and works hard they leave him on it. If that means they have 4 walk-ons starting, then that's what they do. They honor their commitment to the player, even if he doesn't pan out on the field. I think that's pretty cool. Almost no schools that are typically ranked do that. Many will give a guy a scholarship his freshman year, then give it to somebody else the next year and tell him he can be a preferred walk--on.
For full disclosure... I worked for BYU for 7 years and attended school there. I am not a graduate of the University. I graduated from Utah Valley University and an alumni and booster of that school. My school is a member of the WAC and we have no football team, but have very good basketball and baseball and track programs. We have 30,000+ students at UVU. We're about the same size as BYU. BYU is local to me, and I have many friends and contacts and family scattered throughout. I don't necessarily have the greatest things to say about BYU in general, as I left employment there on my own terms after a really stupid situation with funding. So it isn't like I'm a big cheerleader. They are the one college football program that I can keep close tabs on because of my connections and their physical proximity to my house (about 3 miles away). So I stay informed and know many former players, coaches, current staff, boosters, and those who pull strings (including the AD and the de facto leader of the former player's group who is highly involved in decision making on certain matters).
skater18000 wrote:Lol answer the question shark