Let's talk ourselves into Collier

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Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:54 pm
  • Not a shocking pick, but not my favorite. Collier, however, is versatile and is more a replacement for a Bennett role than a direct replacement for Clark.

    Collier lacks timed athleticism and testing, but he is strong and refined as a rusher and one of the best run defenders in the draft. He doesn't cede ground at the point of attack, and he has a hell of a motor. With time in an NFL conditioning program, we may be looking at an ultimate utility on the line who can set the edge on early downs and rip through the interior on passing downs.

    High floor. Potentially a low ceiling, though, unless he can add muscle and lose fat on his frame for some additional explosiveness. He does the things that you can't teach well, though.

    Edit: Also, he's only 6'2", but has 34 inch arms and still put up 25 reps. Pretty good.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:03 pm
  • Love the pick! Okay, who am I fooling. No idea who he is, but I'm not worried. from a quick review, looks like he's a good pick for late in round one.

    Personally, I would have preferred Zach Allen or Jason Winovich. I think Zach would have been great getting pressure up the middle.

    But we did need run defense, and getting a hybrid run/pass defender fits the bill. John and Pete have found gems before and i think this might be one too.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:05 pm
  • He's Jacob Martin. We had an opportunity to add some excellent players, traded back twice, got the most average DL of the bunch in R1, and now lost out on nkeal cause Pats appreciate offense.
    Last edited by mistaowen on Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:09 pm
  • I'd rather have the best safety in the draft Darnell Savage that can cover the slot at 21 then Collier at 29 and some mid round picks. That said Collier will help us against the run. Not a good draft so far imo
    Northwest Seahawk
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:13 pm
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:I'd rather have the best safety in the draft Darnell Savage that can cover the slot at 21 then Collier at 29 and some mid round picks. That said Collier will help us against the run. Not a good draft so far imo


    Darnell isn't the only safety who can do that - Chauncey and Adderley also have cornerback in their background, just like Thomas did. Still can grab a guy to fill out that role. However, if they don't go that route, I'll understand it - Carroll can craft a league-average secondary out of glue and pencil shavings.

    To be fair, I love Savage. Savage is from my hometown of Newark, DE. I've watched him play in high school against my alma mater. But 21 was rich when comparable prospects exist in the second.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:16 pm
  • Nothing about him screams he is going to be exceptional but he should be solid.

    Not exciting. But for a later pick OK. The bummer was it was only a later pick because we traded down.

    I don't think the 4th round picks are going to make up for what we lost here. There were some splash players available without trading down and even after trading down Harry had more upside for us. The Patriots are consistently smarter than our staff so the fact they bought in on him tells you all you need to know. We missed on that one.

    His college production is solid. But watching him on film he didn't look exceptional to me, just good.

    I would probably be more excited but he isn't going to come near Clark's level, not with several years of seasoning. So we just got worse on the line and replaced an exceptional player with a much less exceptional one.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:21 pm
  • I have to think about half of the speed rushers taken before Collier will be wash outs or close to it.

    I like him.

    He thick.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:23 pm
  • Had similar pressure numbers to Sweat and Burns. Big physical guy with chip, have all these people doubt the pick even better. Best part is pre-Clark trade we had 4 picks and turned into 9. Solid.


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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:34 pm
  • Funny story.. almost made a post about Collier on here but texted my Dad instead. So typical we'd draft a guy who was not expected to be a 1st rder.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:37 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:Funny story.. almost made a post about Collier on here but texted my Dad instead. So typical we'd draft a guy who was not expected to be a 1st rder.


    So we picked him at 29 instead of 34 or 35. Do those few spots really make that much difference? Other than the 5th year option, there's little difference between 4-5 spots after the first 10 picks or so.

    But great call on the pick, Wen. It actually shows a lot of foreknowledge and understanding of the current Seahawks leadership.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:00 am
  • I'd of preferred a Reggie White type. :sarcasm_off:
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:15 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Nothing about him screams he is going to be exceptional but he should be solid.

    Not exciting. But for a later pick OK. The bummer was it was only a later pick because we traded down.

    I don't think the 4th round picks are going to make up for what we lost here. There were some splash players available without trading down and even after trading down Harry had more upside for us. The Patriots are consistently smarter than our staff so the fact they bought in on him tells you all you need to know. We missed on that one.

    His college production is solid. But watching him on film he didn't look exceptional to me, just good.

    I would probably be more excited but he isn't going to come near Clark's level, not with several years of seasoning. So we just got worse on the line and replaced an exceptional player with a much less exceptional one.


    The Patriots do not have a good history with WR picks in the draft. Deion Branch and Julian Edelman are the only guys they have drafted at WR that have done anything.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:09 am
  • Rob is a fan of the pick over at SeahawksDraftBlog.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:26 am
  • Between the poor trade values and a short non athletic prospect I’m not excited in the least bit about him.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:06 am
  • Prisco gives the pick a B+
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:27 am
  • mistaowen wrote:He's Jacob Martin. We had an opportunity to add some excellent players, traded back twice, got the most average DL of the bunch in R1, and now lost out on nkeal cause Pats appreciate offense.


    He isn't similar to Martin at all as a player type.

    Think more like Preston Smith or Adrian Clayborn. Maybe even Courtney Upshaw. He's a bigger DE (280+) as opposed to Martin who struggles to keep the high 250s.

    Collier's athleticism is right in line with Smith and Clayborn. Both were high 2nd round type players. But their classes were also sprinkled/diluted with strong talent elsewhere. Something you didn't see in this draft.

    I like Collier where we took him if all you consider is athletic comparisons and where his peers were drafted. We should like the pick more because Colliers' real quality is his sophisticated and what appears natural affinity for hand usage. This is a guy who really has a great feel for technique. Whether he's just a good student of his craft or he just naturally knows how to do it. The main takeaway I see, is this is a player who has readily identifiable skills. He is not just a raw athlete like Rashan Gary. In fact, he's really quite the opposite.


    I see him really as almost a clone of Preston Smith who I loved in his class and still do. Players who had good/not great athleticism. But exceptional, and violent technique. Both players have an abundance of 'sand in the pants' so to speak. Collier clearly plays like it as he produces great strength from his lower body/core.

    He's not a speed to power guy. He's a power to even more power guy. And instead of transitioning speed to power, he uses his heavy hands to win in tight spaces and his lower body to power through opposing OL in close quarters.

    He's not a Todd Gurley type of DE. A run to daylight type. He's through and through a Marshawn Lynch type of DE. He's going to go through your M$%#F@$#^ face.

    I think we'll like his brand very much here.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:28 am
  • Looking forward to seeing what the kid can do. Listening to Baldinger gush over him today was awesome.
    I trust his opinion over fans' opinions any day.
    Welcome to Seattle kid!
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:05 am
  • hburn21 wrote:Between the poor trade values and a short non athletic prospect I’m not excited in the least bit about him.

    Russ?
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:17 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Looking forward to seeing what the kid can do. Listening to Baldinger gush over him today was awesome.
    I trust his opinion over fans' opinions any day.
    Welcome to Seattle kid!


    Posters on here questioning the pick (some who admit to not knowing who he is) because of his height or whatever?! Go watch the tape, especially Balldinger's. Long arms, great hand fighter, non-stop motor, very good against the run as well as a pass rusher.
    I think people are forgetting that we could improve the pass rush in other areas than replacing Frank. It's the most glaring spot but not the only position to improve. If LJ anchors MB's role for several years than I its a good pick. There are still quite a few pure rushers that could help immediately.
    Not to mention the other way to improve the pass rush is to improve a below average coverage secondary.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:28 am
  • If the Hawks can re-sign Reed, they have the makings of a good young DL.

    LDE - Collier
    LDT - Reed
    RDT - Ford
    RDE - ?

    The speed guys off the RDE (Leo) roll in Carroll's defense are probably easier to find than a good LDE that can both defend the run and rush the passer effectively.

    Should be very interesting when you sit back and think of the ability those three D-Lineman have to make splash plays and create havoc in the backfield.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:09 am
  • JGreen79 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Nothing about him screams he is going to be exceptional but he should be solid.

    Not exciting. But for a later pick OK. The bummer was it was only a later pick because we traded down.

    I don't think the 4th round picks are going to make up for what we lost here. There were some splash players available without trading down and even after trading down Harry had more upside for us. The Patriots are consistently smarter than our staff so the fact they bought in on him tells you all you need to know. We missed on that one.

    His college production is solid. But watching him on film he didn't look exceptional to me, just good.

    I would probably be more excited but he isn't going to come near Clark's level, not with several years of seasoning. So we just got worse on the line and replaced an exceptional player with a much less exceptional one.


    The Patriots do not have a good history with WR picks in the draft. Deion Branch and Julian Edelman are the only guys they have drafted at WR that have done anything.


    This is the first WR taken in the draft in the Belichick era. N'Keal is the perfect possession receiver for the Pat's style of offense. Brady will pick you apart and march down the field with receivers like this because they will get you first downs.

    He was who I was hoping we would pick with our second pick.

    We like 1st downs too, don't we?
    Last edited by DomeHawk on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:10 am
  • cheese22 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Looking forward to seeing what the kid can do. Listening to Baldinger gush over him today was awesome.
    I trust his opinion over fans' opinions any day.
    Welcome to Seattle kid!


    Posters on here questioning the pick (some who admit to not knowing who he is) because of his height or whatever?! Go watch the tape, especially Balldinger's. Long arms, great hand fighter, non-stop motor, very good against the run as well as a pass rusher.
    I think people are forgetting that we could improve the pass rush in other areas than replacing Frank. It's the most glaring spot but not the only position to improve. If LJ anchors MB's role for several years than I its a good pick. There are still quite a few pure rushers that could help immediately.
    Not to mention the other way to improve the pass rush is to improve a below average coverage secondary.


    Yes, but many had him on the board in the 3rd round.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:02 am
  • Meh, boards mean nothing. Let's see what he can do.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:17 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Meh, boards mean nothing. Let's see what he can do.


    He may turn out to be fine but is he really a replacement for Frank?

    As for the boards, a consensus of opinion among those who have the most amount of experience in any area does mean something. It isn't, however, absolute.
    Last edited by DomeHawk on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am
  • We love guys that have great hands and understand how to win at handfighting.

    That is probably why we picked him.

    If we had gotten him in the 2nd, I would have been really happy.

    Just a bummer for a 1st rounder because you expect guys that have a better chance of being a top 5 or top 10 player at their position.

    He isn't quick. At all. One of the lowest shuttle / 3 cone times so his change of direction is poor.

    But you cannot argue with his production. The challenge will be whether he can overwhelm OL in the NFL physically like he did in college.

    He looks to have a very high floor but low ceiling. Maybe we needed that right now.

    Probably won't become a dominant player but not a guy that you will complain much about either.

    And again, the loss of Clark just makes it harder because you naturally want to compare what you lost and hope you can replace it. He almost certainly isn't going to be the equal of Clark, but I would be shocked if he wasn't solid as a reasonable level starter after a year or 2.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:29 am
  • We will never know if another team was going to pick him soon after. It's easy for the fans to say "we could have picked him in x round" etc.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:35 am
  • I never said we could have gotten him earlier (though he had a 2nd and 3rd round grade from some scouts).

    It was more the kind of pick like this is better swallowed as a 2nd rounder.

    This isn't a guy that has much of a shot of being a star. He is a guy that becomes a solid contributor on a roster.

    This is literally the draft-day equivalent of getting socks and underwear for Christmas. You might be able to use them but it is still hard to get that excited about.

    (The very thread title by the OP implies this.....'Let's talk ourselves into Collier" instead of "I'm excited about Collier" or "We got Collier!" or even a more generic "1st Round Pick Collier". We have to talk ourselves INTO it, not that much excitement about it. Not that he cannot be a good player but there is isn't a lot that you can project from here. )
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:41 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:I never said we could have gotten him earlier (though he had a 2nd and 3rd round grade from some scouts).

    It was more the kind of pick like this is better swallowed as a 2nd rounder.

    This isn't a guy that has much of a shot of being a star. He is a guy that becomes a solid contributor on a roster.

    This is literally the draft-day equivalent of getting socks and underwear for Christmas. You might be able to use them but it is still hard to get that excited about.


    Lol, finally! an analogy that feels right!
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:49 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:I never said we could have gotten him earlier (though he had a 2nd and 3rd round grade from some scouts).

    It was more the kind of pick like this is better swallowed as a 2nd rounder.

    This isn't a guy that has much of a shot of being a star. He is a guy that becomes a solid contributor on a roster.

    This is literally the draft-day equivalent of getting socks and underwear for Christmas. You might be able to use them but it is still hard to get that excited about.


    Lol, finally! an analogy that feels right!


    Two things that isn't speaking well for Collier:

    1. He didn't excel at collegiate level, a rotational player at TCU?
    2. His skill didn't translate into eye popping stats.

    But then the same could be said about Bennett.
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Re: Let's talk ourselves into Collier
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:52 am
  • The most frustrating thing about this pick was this was EXACTLY the kind of pick we needed back when our SuperBowl window was open and we kept making weird reaches on draft picks or trading away our 1st round picks altogether.

    We had all these studs on our team and just needed to address attrition issues. All we needed were guys that could plug holes and provide depth. Guys like this.

    Now we finally get a guy like this when half the studs we had are gone.

    I hope the rest of our draft isn't plugging holes. We need to just shoot for high ceiling, low floor guys with the understanding the failure rate is higher. We need to go back to what made this team great, getting great upside raw guys and developing them.

    There is not a pathway back to the SuperBowl or even the top of the division, just finding guys that we can fill gaps with.
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