Thoughts on DT Andrew Billings Baylor? I'm a fan

ivotuk · Feb 3, 2016

Not only can he play, he's immensely strong! Punch those Olinemen backwards 20 feet!

By Mark Seymour  @OurDailyBears on Mar 23, 2013

Baylor 2013 DT Andrew Billings breaks Mark Henry's State Powerlifting Record

"Just a reminder: This is an eighteen-year-old kid. He'll be a freshman next year. And he's probably the strongest person, regardless of age, in the state of Texas right now, if not the country. 2010 pounds. He nearly lifted a pound for every year that has passed since the birth of Christ (no matter if you believe Christ was actually born in 1 A.D. or 2)."

http://www.ourdailybears.com/baylor-foo ... ing-record

pcbball12 · Feb 3, 2016

I love him. Here are my notes on him.

-Quick, explosive get off. Fires off the snap with good pad level.
-Can one gap or two gap. Versatile player.
-Does a very good job getting off blocks. Very strong upper body.
-Active hands. Does nice job ripping when rushing the passer.
-Looks very athletic for his size. Quick off snap and closes to ball very well.
-Relentless motor. Will chase ball all across field, never gives up on a play.
-Sometimes shoots gap so quick and over pursues, leaving cut back open.

When he is not double teamed, he completely wrecks games.

jdemps · Feb 3, 2016

I've been wondering if/when someone would make a Billings thread. I've been watching his tape the last few days and I can't decide whether I love or hate this guy. He the definition of a pocket pusher. He's country strong. Built like an ox. His tape shows great lateral agility with a monster punch and first step. The problem is that he's slow and doesn't turn on a dime even relative to other big men. According to NFL.com, his NFL comp is Mebane.

There's so much upside here and the guy isn't even 20 years old yet. The question is whether we can put some tools in his pash rushing toolbox so he can become a complete player and, TBH, I'm not really convinced our coaching staff is up to the challenge. The closest thing we've had to a success story in the JS/PC era for draft DT is Jordan Hill. Besides Jesse Williams, none of the others are even with the team.

(DTs drafted by JS/PC: Jimmy Staten, Jordan Hill, Jesse Williams, Jared Smith, Jaye Howard, not to mention like 6 DEs they've drafted and released since 2010)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...rew-billings-exhibits-rare-runstuffing-traits

Attyla the Hawk · Feb 3, 2016

Favorite prospect at any position in this draft.

See him as a similar player to Vince Wilfork, with a Cortez Kennedy upside. Very unique player with amazing athleticism for his size. Used primarily at 0 and 1 technique but very disruptive when lined up outside the guard at the 3.

Very quick, appears to have very long limbs and ridiculously strong. Natural tendency is to comp him to an existing player but I think he's just unique and not likely to comp to anyone but himself in this league.

I said when we drafted Earl Thomas that I thought he'd be unique in such a way that teams would spend years looking for the next Thomas. I see Billings that same way.

penihawk · Feb 3, 2016

Agree with Attyla. The player we need in the middle of our line. Too bad he never makes it to 26 but they better sprint the card to the podium if he does!

titan3131 · Feb 3, 2016

If he's available we pick him.

theENGLISHseahawk · Feb 4, 2016

Spent some time looking at him today. Like the way he uses his length and shows real flashes of athleticism when he closes to the ball carrier. Very mobile.

HOWEVER -- his gap discipline doesn't exist. Whether he's told to or not, he essentially moves laterally to find gaps and then runs to the ball. There's not even a hint of a swim/rip and some of the bull rush stuff might not be quite as effective against pro linemen. At the next level he has to be able to win with get off, swim/rip and knifing gaps. He can't be moving around, locating the hole and then running through it. That winging it-style also means he doesn't cover any gaps vs the run because he's basically trying to find a route into the backfield on every snap. The Seahawks preach gap discipline as integral and I'm thoroughly unconvinced they'd take Billings in R1 for that reason alone. I can see why they grade Sheldon Rankins in R1 because his gap discipline is excellent and he shows the quickness and get-off to be an effective pass rusher. Billings doesn't have that combination.

Also spent too much time on the floor against Oklahoma. Was bullied at times in that game.

He's a good player, but not a can't miss type and would be more of a Mebane replacement in Seattle IMO. Not sure that'll be seen as a priority.

kobebryant · Feb 4, 2016

If he can be as good as Mebane for as long as Mebane that's worth a 26 every time.

jdemps · Feb 4, 2016

kobebryant":1ewiv4ex said:
If he can be as good as Mebane for as long as Mebane that's worth a 26 every time.

Except we got Mebane in the 3rd.

I think he's straight replacement for Mebane right now. If he acquires some pass rush moves, I'd say he's worth 26.

kobebryant · Feb 4, 2016

jdemps":dtl3wf4c said:
kobebryant":dtl3wf4c said:

If he can be as good as Mebane for as long as Mebane that's worth a 26 every time.

Click to expand...

Except we got Mebane in the 3rd.

I think he's straight replacement for Mebane right now. If he acquires some pass rush moves, I'd say he's worth 26.

True. But Mebane's career, as have the careers of many other non-1st rounders, been worth a 1st round value.

I'm guess what I'm saying is that if you spend the 26th pick and get a Mebane like return it is well worth it.

Without looking it up, I would say that Mebane is definitely a top 25 career from the 2007 draft.

theENGLISHseahawk · Feb 4, 2016

Why not just keep Mebane?

Erebus · Feb 4, 2016

theENGLISHseahawk":8pi01hfx said:
Spent some time looking at him today. Like the way he uses his length and shows real flashes of athleticism when he closes to the ball carrier. Very mobile.

HOWEVER -- his gap discipline doesn't exist. Whether he's told to or not, he essentially moves laterally to find gaps and then runs to the ball. There's not even a hint of a swim/rip and some of the bull rush stuff might not be quite as effective against pro linemen. At the next level he has to be able to win with get off, swim/rip and knifing gaps. He can't be moving around, locating the hole and then running through it. That winging it-style also means he doesn't cover any gaps vs the run because he's basically trying to find a route into the backfield on every snap. The Seahawks preach gap discipline as integral and I'm thoroughly unconvinced they'd take Billings in R1 for that reason alone. I can see why they grade Sheldon Rankins in R1 because his gap discipline is excellent and he shows the quickness and get-off to be an effective pass rusher. Billings doesn't have that combination.

Also spent too much time on the floor against Oklahoma. Was bullied at times in that game.

He's a good player, but not a can't miss type and would be more of a Mebane replacement in Seattle IMO. Not sure that'll be seen as a priority.

Is gap discipline something that can be coached? Do we know if his coaches tried to instill any gap discipline in him? If they did and he ignored their instructions, then I would pass on him in round one. But if he was doing what was asked of him, and can be coached into playing with better discipline, then I think he's someone to consider in round one.

kobebryant · Feb 4, 2016

theENGLISHseahawk":3e571lf7 said:
Why not just keep Mebane?

Even better.

I like the Hawks DT group as is actually. I think they've always done what Pete wants them to do and they're not looking for an all-pro at those spots.

If Jason Jones could come relatively inexpensive on a short-term deal to provide some interior pass rushing juice that'd be nice.

jammerhawk · Feb 4, 2016

Why not draft a real 3 tech and redo Mebane at a team friendly number?

McGruff · Feb 4, 2016

I have no doubt that getting interior pass rush is priority number one in a DT. I think Billings has some push in that way, but he's not a pass rushing DT by any means. The tape I've seen doesn't impress me.

The thdee guy in recent history that impressed me were Sheldon Richardson, Aaron Donald and Kawaan Short. What they had in common on tape was quick get off, active hands, and relentless whistle to whistle drive. I see some of that from Rankins, some of that from Day, and a lot of that from Nkemdiche and a ton of that from Hargrave.

Missing_Clink · Feb 4, 2016

Seems like their track record with veteran free agent DTs is so good, they may just stick to that route and use high picks on other positions. I would think that if they are gonna pick a DT in the first, he would need to be an exceptional interior rusher like Donald or Short.

KitsapGuy · Feb 4, 2016

In his most recent mock draft for ESPN Insider, Todd McShay has the Seattle Seahawks taking Baylor defensive tackle Andrew Billings with the 26th pick in the first round.

Billings (6-2, 310) was named co-Big 12 defensive player of the year for his performance in 2015, totaling 5.5 sacks and 14 tackles for loss. Known as a complete freak in the weight room even before he played a single college game, Billings is a young prospect who doesn't turn 20 until next month.

From a positional perspective, this pick would make a lot of sense. Both of the Seahawks' starting defensive tackles -- Brandon Mebane and Ahtyba Rubin -- are unrestricted free agents this offseason. Mebane is 31, and Rubin turns 30 in July. The veterans did outstanding work against the run all season long, earning constant praise from teammates and coaches. Pete Carroll at one point said Rubin was the best three-technique he's had in Seattle.

The Seahawks may try to bring one or both back. They realize their window is wide open right now, and they want to keep the core of the defense together.

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... s-at-no-26

McGruff · Feb 4, 2016

KitsapGuy":bgi8kmwi said:
In his most recent mock draft for ESPN Insider, Todd McShay has the Seattle Seahawks taking Baylor defensive tackle Andrew Billings with the 26th pick in the first round.

Billings (6-2, 310) was named co-Big 12 defensive player of the year for his performance in 2015, totaling 5.5 sacks and 14 tackles for loss. Known as a complete freak in the weight room even before he played a single college game, Billings is a young prospect who doesn't turn 20 until next month.

From a positional perspective, this pick would make a lot of sense. Both of the Seahawks' starting defensive tackles -- Brandon Mebane and Ahtyba Rubin -- are unrestricted free agents this offseason. Mebane is 31, and Rubin turns 30 in July. The veterans did outstanding work against the run all season long, earning constant praise from teammates and coaches. Pete Carroll at one point said Rubin was the best three-technique he's had in Seattle.

The Seahawks may try to bring one or both back. They realize their window is wide open right now, and they want to keep the core of the defense together.

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... s-at-no-26

He does have the age thing in his favor. I think Earl was 19 when he decalred too. Crazy.

firebee · Feb 4, 2016

Kid has amazing natural ability... Everyone talks about his strength, but the speed he has for a guy his size is absolutely insane. I'm also very very impressed with his natural balance. You almost never see him tripping up or falling down, even when he's moving through the trash. He has crazy balance. Still very raw, but he has an amazing amount of upside if he'll take to coaching and do what a team needs him to do.

Things I noticed... He needs to widen his base more, which will help with his change of direction, short area quickness and controlling his gaps. Needs to develop a lot more pass rush moves and be a lot more active with his hands. Their's a tremendous amount of upside with this kid, but he's definitely going to need a lot of work to be an effective every down DT that won't give up big plays to the run and consistently pressure the pocket. Was watching Billings against Oklahoma and caught myself wondering who is #68 for Oklahoma? He looked absolutely great against Billings and you have to figure... If he can handle Billings, he can probably handle most of the DTs in the NFL.

firebee · Feb 4, 2016

firebee":4uct5bsc said:
Kid has amazing natural ability... Everyone talks about his strength, but the speed he has for a guy his size is absolutely insane. I'm also very very impressed with his natural balance. You almost never see him tripping up or falling down, even when he's moving through the trash. He has crazy balance. Still very raw, but he has an amazing amount of upside if he'll take to coaching and do what a team needs him to do.

Things I noticed... He needs to widen his base more, which will help with his change of direction, short area quickness and controlling his gaps. Needs to develop a lot more pass rush moves and be a lot more active with his hands. Their's a tremendous amount of upside with this kid, but he's definitely going to need a lot of work to be an effective every down DT that won't give up big plays to the run and consistently pressure the pocket. Was watching Billings against Oklahoma and caught myself wondering who is #68 for Oklahoma? He looked absolutely great against Billings and you have to figure... If he can handle Billings, he can probably handle most of the DTs in the NFL.

Jonathan Alvarez is #68 for Oklahoma ... Was a sophomore last year. Definitely need to keep an eye on him.

Thoughts on DT Andrew Billings Baylor? I'm a fan

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