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An early 2020 mock for Seattle (4 rounds)

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
  • Looking forward to draft season. Seattle is in a good position to add a few pieces to push them further towards having a legitimate championship roster. Currently, they're 10-3 and outperforming their level of talent on paper, as is typical of Pete Carroll teams. However, the point differential is really close - tons of nailbiter games.

    Carroll and Schneider are likely going to have a late first, as well as 2 late seconds to play around with. Here's how I think they use them. Draft position estimates are based off the list here: https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/seattle/38/


    TRADE: Round 1, Pick 30 traded to Lions for 37, 112, 176.

    Round 2, Pick 37 (from Detroit): Mekhi Becton, OT, Louisville.

    Image

    Let me start by saying that if Becton lasts until 37, it'll be because someone like Alex Leatherwood declared and was taken ahead of Becton.

    Becton is a monster of a man - 6'7", 369. Long 'n' strong. He's playing left tackle for the Cardinals, but here he's slotting in at right tackle to replace Ifedi, who leaves in free agency. Becton is strong, tough, and for the most part he's reliable, only missing a few games due to injury. He comes off as a good guy in interviews. He's improved from 2018. He keeps a decent amount of agility for a man of his size. He seems to struggle with stunts, but he can be coached out of that.

    I expect Seattle to go tackle with their first pick. They've never been shy about investing in the offensive line, and Becton fits with the identity of the team. If he ends up lasting until the top of the second, pull the trigger and call it a day. Let him duke it out with Jamarco for RT.


    Round 2, Pick 58: Kenny Willekes, Edge, Michigan State

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    Exorcising the demons from the last time they picked a Spartan defensive lineman... we go with the anti-McDowell, Kenny Willekes. A guy who went from walk-on, to one of the more productive defenders in the country. He just won the Burlsworth Trophy as the nation's top walk-on player. He was the 2018 Big 10 DL of the Year. He's all over the place draft stock wise... not a top-100 prospect according to CBS. I suspect he will rise.

    He's not the most athletic player - but he's going to test better than Collier did. His motor is high-revving, and he plays at redline. Does not give up. Not a huge liability in the run game, effort doesn't dip on run plays, plays with discipline. I suspect his pressure numbers (specifically the pressure rate stat that PC/JS seem to put significant stock in to) will look good, in most part due to his motor. Footwork is clean, pass rush moves are just adequate and he would benefit by adding some nuance to his moves as they can be somewhat predictable. In college, a lot of his wins come when he's unblocked. He's solid, though. A leader.


    Round 2, Pick 62: Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky

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    Another lineman, yeah. Iupati is gone after this year, Britt and Fluker are strong cut candidates, Ifedi is almost certainly gone in free agency. Realistically, the line could lose every starter that isn't Duane Brown. This is going to be a need.

    Stenberg is NASTY. Not "bad human being" nasty - he's likely going to interview well, and he's a guy who loves football, but this guy plays with a crazy mean streak. He lives solely to pancake, he drives guys into the ground, he plays with strength - he's a straight up mean b!@ch on the gridiron. If you give him a shot, he comes away with one of the starting guard spots I bet.

    If there is a worry, it's that he has a high change to draw a few more holding/unnecessary roughness calls than average. But I bet he pisses opposing defenders off enough to draw a few calls himself to even it out.

    He came into the season a UDFA, he's rising, will probably end up day 2 with an outside shot to skyrocket into day 1. I absolutely love this dude, and heavy investment on the line will be needed. Becton and Stenberg together in the same draft haul would be amazing. Seriously, watch his tape, it's fun stuff.


    Round 3, Pick 103 (Compensatory): Najee Harris, RB, Alabama

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    Don't get me wrong, I think Pete Carroll loves Chris Carson.

    I also think he'd love Najee Harris.

    We've seen before that the Seahawks will hedge their bet at running back with draft capital - they loved Carson, but still selected Penny in the 1st round. Penny, despite not being the main workhorse, has missed a fair amount of time and is now out for the remainder of the season. Carroll views rushing as sort of the heart and soul of the team. I'm sure he's really wishing he had another back right now.

    Harris doesn't fumble often. He's productive. He has upside in the passing game, and bear in mind Schottenheimer has mentioned he wants to target rushers more in the pass game. Najee has a mean stiff arm and hurdle - kinda like Carson. Big guy who can rush with power, has a serviceable juke move, and can hit a hole with conviction. Harris seems like a guy who'd fit right in.

    Round 4, Pick 112 (From Detroit): Lavert Hill, CB, Michigan

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    Yes, this is Lano's brother. Lavert is smaller than Lano, and projects as a nickel/slot corner in the NFL. He's speedy, has decent ball skills, and has the connection with Lano. I'm worried that he gets a bit too handsy and may draw some flags, but otherwise I think he has potential to be one of the better nickel corners in the league and think Seattle may specifically target a smaller corner for the role to replicate the success they had with Justin Coleman. He'll probably compete with Amadi, who likely has a roster spot regardless due to his versatility and special teams play.

    TRADE: Seattle trades up to 113, giving up 136, 162, and 249.

    Round 4: Pick 113: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota


    Image

    I've got Tyler Johnson falling here due to underwhelming testing. He's a guy who can get open and make some really nice catches. Doesn't miss much due to injury. Team player, smart kid who stayed in school to get his degree. Biggest knock is that he doesn't have elite speed. If he falls, I think he's a player worth trading up for.


    Round 4, Pick 145 (Compensatory): Willie g** Jr., LB, Mississippi State


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    Willie has a character red flag - he was suspended for violating team rules this earlier this season. However, he is respected by his teammates and brings energy to his defense. He has speed and some playmaking ability, but needs to work on taking better angles to ballcarriers. He grades out fantastically in coverage, so if Pete continues to have such a boner for base defense, his zone prowess will come in handy. If he interviews well and the suspension was more of a one time mistake than an indicator of persistent irresponsibility, he will probably rise higher than this. If he does have some maturity issues, he's worth the risk and will be going to a solid locker room in Seattle. Son of former Steeler CB William g**.



    This is a fun draft class.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Maelstrom787
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  • 4th round WR?
    Ummmmm................



    Seriously thanks for your effort. The G from Kentucky sounds the most intriguing. "Nasty" is something I'd like to see more of on this team as would many others here. You mentioned nothing about his pass pro ability tho. Got any insight?
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:4th round WR?
    Ummmmm................



    Seriously thanks for your effort. The G from Kentucky sounds the most intriguing. "Nasty" is something I'd like to see more of on this team as would many others here. You mentioned nothing about his pass pro ability tho. Got any insight?


    Hey, one of those 4th round receivers has to hit at some point :cry:

    Yeah, run blocking definitely seems to be his strength, but his pass protection is better than I thought for a guy who has limited agility.

    For his pass pro, he doesn't seem to get beat by power very often - he's very stout. His limitations come when dealing with speed rushers - once he makes solid contact, he doesn't let his guy go very often. Best way to get past him is to get around him is to prevent him locking on by rushing on a stunt or as a blitzer. Other than that, he's sound.

    He would do best going to a straight up power scheme, but I don't think he'd be terrible in a combo scheme like we have here. His lateral agility isn't his strong suit, but he isn't the worst. Surprisingly, he looks to be pretty adept at pulling from his spot at LG for Kentucky. One thing I've noticed is that he struggles a bit once he moves up to the second level, and the linebackers tend to get around him.

    So to recap, I think he's a decent pass protector inside. He won't have too much trouble against your traditional nose tackles or 1 techniques, but guys that rocket off the ball like, say, Geno Atkins, or quicker guys that move inside like Michael Bennett or Frank Clark have a better chance of exploiting him.
    Maelstrom787
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  • I really like it, especially the positions.

    Some thoughts:

    -I think I might prefer Baun, Ushe, Okwara or Lewis to Willekes if Willekes doesn't test all that well athletically.

    - I do feel like the Hawks play with fire a little bit by by only having two starter quality boundary corners in Griffin and Flowers. This is a pretty good draft for length at the outside CB spot, though it doesn't tend to be something that they ever do early.

    -The late 2nd/early 3rd tends to be the Hawks sweet spot for nailing the WRs - Tate, Lockett, Metcalf. I wouldn't be opposed to going there again.

    - Interior oline. Joey Hunt has been an excellent draft pick and is doing a commendable job. Though I think if they draft for the interior that the player should have some center capabilities - like a Cesar Ruiz.
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  • kobebryant wrote:- Interior oline. Joey Hunt has been an excellent draft pick and is doing a commendable job. Though I think if they draft for the interior that the player should have some center capabilities - like a Cesar Ruiz.

    Hunt is a nice backup. If they let Britt walk as expected they'll draft a C unless Pocic comes in and tears it up at the position which I have serious doubts about. I think that guy needs to be picked early.
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • Agreed. If they let Britt walk, a stud Center is what I want in one of the first few rounds.
    2_0_6
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  • Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.
    chris98251
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  • chris98251 wrote:Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.


    K thx
    Maelstrom787
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  • chris98251 wrote:Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.


    I appreciated the op, thought it was a quality read actually.
    kobebryant
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  • kobebryant wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.


    I appreciated the op, thought it was a quality read actually.


    To be fair, I do get where he's coming from. I was a d*ck in my reply above.

    I'm just a guy with a special passion for the NFL Draft - I like it almost as much as the football itself, maybe equally. It's like a second Christmas to me. I'm glued to the TV for all 7 rounds, even if the 'Hawks aren't picking round 1.

    Chris is right, there are tons of unknowns. For a lot of mock drafts, their intention is to try to accurately nail the picks at their correct spot. Obviously, it's too soon to try to get that stuff right. My intention was more so to ponder the upcoming needs of the team, keeping in mind likely departures, and highlight some of my current favorite prospects that fit what the Seahawks look for and what range they may be available in. My motivation is mostly to satisfy my own boredom through studying - this is when I really like to start diving into the draft class so that when the big show is here, I feel informed when I'm watching it unfold. Mock drafts help me do that because I have to dive deep into big boards and college rosters to understand what each positional group currently looks like in the 2020 class.

    I wouldn't say that it's too early to start speculating, though. My main concern is the current season, obviously, and I'm loving where the Seahawks are given their record. I think that this draft is what really has the potential to push the roster into the next echelon of talent.

    Thanks, by the way. I'm glad you liked it. I'm not too great at evaluating prospects or breaking down tape, but I try to back everything up with solid reasoning and go with my gut based on tape.
    Maelstrom787
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  • 2_0_6 wrote:Agreed. If they let Britt walk, a stud Center is what I want in one of the first few rounds.


    I was thinking they'd let Pocic and Haynes go at it, possibly signing a free agent to join the competition. Pete said in November that they're looking at Haynes at center, possibly developing him there long term. Center was Pocic's natural position in college, as well. I like Haynes a lot, and Pocic has shown massive improvement.



    The way I was approaching this basic draft outline was similar to the 2011 draft, where they loaded up on offensive line early on. They seem more likely to spend draft capital at tackle and guard early on than center, so I kept that tendency in mind even though it's probably somewhat random and based on how the board falls.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Wasn't trying to be an ass as much as we need to know who we are resigning, secondly do we back fill with F.A. at certain positions, we went heavy into the F.A. market to get big guys on the O line and draft project guys not starters. Do we use that same approach again ? Solari has his types and we don't emphasize pass protection as much as a guy that can blow holes open.

    We also tend to load up positionally in drafts, need a LB we draft 4, need Safeties we draft 4, CB's or RB's same heavy approach hoping one or two work out. Right now were still on the DE, DT need as well Collier and I think Green are targeted for break out seasons next year., at last we can hope.

    We obviously need a Nickel guy, since Coleman left it has been a problem, Diggs is the guy at FS and we have our redshirt guys drafted last year plus Hill and Thompson. We are missing that Enforcer SS however still, McDougald is a nice stop gap but really doesn't make anyone think twice about crossing about the middle of the field.

    TE is another position to look for depth, Dickson is all but gone I would think, Hollister earned another contract, Dissly may not be back early next year.

    Now you have to look at position in draft, what the strengths are for what we are going to be needing after all the Veterans are sorted out and F.A. signings.

    So much to speculate about at this point, they are saying cap will be around 196 to 204 Million next year.


    Oh and then their is also RB depth again, does Penny come back with the same explosion he had before injury, typically that's a two year process, we have Homer, Prosise god do we go there for another contract?
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  • Its never to early. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Mocks for me are about seeing others opinions and seeing it from a different point of view. Being right or wrong on picks shouldnt even be an issue. Its about gaining knowledge or insights as a starting point to learn more about a player I havent seen play.

    I hope they bring in another RB.

    I like the thought of drafting a few lineman,we can use them on both sides. I like Ruiz as well. I would love for Tyler Biadasz to fall to us.

    Hopefully you post more on prospects thanks again.
    justafan
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  • chris98251 wrote:Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.

    Which is why we have a separate forum for draft issues. I don't click in here often, especially during the season. :les:
    sutz
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  • I love everything I read about Stenberg. This is the type of attitude on the OL we need. I read a quote about him being the man Dlineman go home saying I hate that guy. He has the same attitude as Giacomini, hopefully he can reign it in a little.
    ,
    I am having trouble finding much video of him and I havent watched a single Kentucky game. Thanks for the info
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  • 6 round, Jacob Breeland TE.
    CPHawk
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  • Great post TS.

    OL, DL and NCB do seem like the obvious top needs. Maybe a CB to compete with Flowers as well, while adding talented depth if him or Griffin get hurt.

    Good point about adding another RB in the middle rounds. Especially since both Carson and Penny have durability issues. So unless Homer surprises for the rest of the season, seems it's a good idea.

    Hopefully there are some good TE's in the middle rounds too.

    All assuming they re-sign Clowney, Reed, Jefferson, Kendricks, Simmons, Hollister, Gordon

    Let go of Ifedi, Fant, Britt, Ansah, Ed Dickson (Fant and Ifedi because of what their market value is projected to be)
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  • To do this we need to start the process of elimination of the roster be it play or performance to salary.

    Then we need to list who we think we will resign that are F.A.

    Off the street guys is way harder to guess at so leave that till last since we know the way some Agents try to bait guys and use the Northwest as a leverage for their clients. Typically it's when we don't hear something it happens with this franchise.

    Then when all that is done we can see what draft positions we have and then whom will typically be in those slots.

    In regards to the OP I do not think we draft two O line man that high, your draft may but where we are in the draft board I don't see it unless a stud falls to us. Collier may be something and may not, Pete is weird how he brings guys along compared to the rest of the league, but edge rusher is still a need and pressure up the middle, we have a whole stable of Safeties and CB's redshirted and IR'ed as well as WR's plus Gordon who says he would like to come back. Don't see us going there a lot unless it's a Free Agent Nickel guy.

    Pete also has said he has the future of our LB's on the roster in Barton and BBK, I think we may need one more here but it's back filled already. Then we have Jones, and Fant as well as Knox, Simmons, Roos, and Haynes all guys that have played but need to be healthy, Roos and Haynes both working at Center. Hard to say what the plan is here but Iupati and Fluker as well as Ifedi all are either F.A. or one more and done.

    What it comes down to is D line again, Christmas and Nazair Jones are the only two guys not playing and on IR, that's D line Depth. Neither has been a pinnacle of health.

    We tend to bring in bodies and stack them up till the position gets filled, seeing that happen on the D line again. We had a draft last year stacked with them yet whiffed and didn't get the guys we really wanted, Collier may be ok and maybe not, but that's not who they really wanted I don't think, I think they go back to the well and heavily this time round.

    Oh as an edit, we really need that SS 4th LB Enforcer guy, Rams would not be throwing that crossing patterns stuff long with WR's needing dentures after a half of play, getting their teeth knocked out with just impactful clean hits has a way of causing dropped passes, that reputation needs to return.
    Last edited by chris98251 on Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • We need to draft the top kicker in the draft. Our kicking game has been a joke for 4 years now.
    CPHawk
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  • chris98251 wrote:To do this we need to start the process of elimination of the roster be it play or performance to salary.

    Then we need to list who we think we will resign that are F.A.

    Off the street guys is way harder to guess at so leave that till last since we know the way some Agents try to bait guys and use the Northwest as a leverage for their clients. Typically it's when we don't hear something it happens with this franchise.

    Then when all that is done we can see what draft positions we have and then whom will typically be in those slots.

    In regards to the OP I do not think we draft two O line man that high, your draft may but where we are in the draft board I don't see it unless a stud falls to us. Collier may be something and may not, Pete is weird how he brings guys along compared to the rest of the league, but edge rusher is still a need and pressure up the middle, we have a whole stable of Safeties and CB's redshirted and IR'ed as well as WR's plus Gordon who says he would like to come back. Don't see us going there a lot unless it's a Free Agent Nickel guy.

    Pete also has said he has the future of our LB's on the roster in Barton and BBK, I think we may need one more here but it's back filled already. Then we have Jones, and Fant as well as Knox, Simmons, Roos, and Haynes all guys that have played but need to be healthy, Roos and Haynes both working at Center. Hard to say what the plan is here but Iupati and Fluker as well as Ifedi all are either F.A. or one more and done.

    What it comes down to is D line again, Christmas and Nazair Jones are the only two guys not playing and on IR, that's D line Depth. Neither has been a pinnacle of health.

    We tend to bring in bodies and stack them up till the position gets filled, seeing that happen on the D line again. We had a draft last year stacked with them yet whiffed and didn't get the guys we really wanted, Collier may be ok and maybe not, but that's not who they really wanted I don't think, I think they go back to the well and heavily this time round.

    Oh as an edit, we really need that SS 4th LB Enforcer guy, Rams would not be throwing that crossing patterns stuff long with WR's needing dentures after a half of play, getting their teeth knocked out with just impactful clean hits has a way of causing dropped passes, that reputation needs to return.



    if you dont want to read about mock drafts dont read them. There is no need to discourage them or tell people what we need to do. Everyone knows a lot changes between now and the draft.

    They are all for fun and discussion. After decades of reading mock drafts,there have been exactly zero that have been right. Nobody will get one right in the future. Dont be so uptight.
    justafan
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  • justafan wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:To do this we need to start the process of elimination of the roster be it play or performance to salary.

    Then we need to list who we think we will resign that are F.A.

    Off the street guys is way harder to guess at so leave that till last since we know the way some Agents try to bait guys and use the Northwest as a leverage for their clients. Typically it's when we don't hear something it happens with this franchise.

    Then when all that is done we can see what draft positions we have and then whom will typically be in those slots.

    In regards to the OP I do not think we draft two O line man that high, your draft may but where we are in the draft board I don't see it unless a stud falls to us. Collier may be something and may not, Pete is weird how he brings guys along compared to the rest of the league, but edge rusher is still a need and pressure up the middle, we have a whole stable of Safeties and CB's redshirted and IR'ed as well as WR's plus Gordon who says he would like to come back. Don't see us going there a lot unless it's a Free Agent Nickel guy.

    Pete also has said he has the future of our LB's on the roster in Barton and BBK, I think we may need one more here but it's back filled already. Then we have Jones, and Fant as well as Knox, Simmons, Roos, and Haynes all guys that have played but need to be healthy, Roos and Haynes both working at Center. Hard to say what the plan is here but Iupati and Fluker as well as Ifedi all are either F.A. or one more and done.

    What it comes down to is D line again, Christmas and Nazair Jones are the only two guys not playing and on IR, that's D line Depth. Neither has been a pinnacle of health.

    We tend to bring in bodies and stack them up till the position gets filled, seeing that happen on the D line again. We had a draft last year stacked with them yet whiffed and didn't get the guys we really wanted, Collier may be ok and maybe not, but that's not who they really wanted I don't think, I think they go back to the well and heavily this time round.

    Oh as an edit, we really need that SS 4th LB Enforcer guy, Rams would not be throwing that crossing patterns stuff long with WR's needing dentures after a half of play, getting their teeth knocked out with just impactful clean hits has a way of causing dropped passes, that reputation needs to return.



    if you dont want to read about mock drafts dont read them. There is no need to discourage them or tell people what we need to do. Everyone knows a lot changes between now and the draft.

    They are all for fun and discussion. After decades of reading mock drafts,there have been exactly zero that have been right. Nobody will get one right in the future. Dont be so uptight.


    Ummm go back to the bench, I do what I want and say what I want pretty much within guidelines, we can talk about the 2330 draft also since we have just about as much insight that draft as we do this one at this point. You need to have a baseline to start speculation, might be better to speculate on what the roster will be after the season and then try to back fill with possible draft picks. except people use the draft machine to get 30 draft picks to do it also. Again might be fun for some but really isn't a fit for a balanced realistic discussion.

    You want to give me $h!t about it but ignore the contribution in the post about where I feel they may need draft help, cherry picking and selective.
    chris98251
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  • Mock drafts to me are pretty much for "entertainment" value only. This early in the draft process, they may be better called "wish lists". However, mocks can potentially provide names of players for consideration in the draft, (at least per the individual doing the mock). About the only real positive one can take from mock drafts is maybe you research players you were not aware of in the first place and maybe some peak your interest. Still, it's mostly just entertainment & a little of the mock drafter pushing for his favorite draft crushes.

    cbssports.com has a "projected" 7-round mock draft that includes" projected" comp picks, In their mock (see link below) they have the Seahawks with picks at:
    28, 60, 64, 100(comp), 136, 144(comp), 215(comp), 244, 252(comp). As good a guess as any, so these are the picks I'm using in my own early draft projections.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... t-with-rb/

    :smilingalien:
    CamanoIslandJQ
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  • To me, they are mostly entertainment as well. But they do serve a useful purpose, in that they help flesh out the draft big board overall.

    It is natural/normal for any fan to see a player they like, but not in the first round and think they are a 2nd/3rd round guy. But then the draft rolls around and different teams they don't follow start picking. And that same guy you thought you'd need to take in the 2nd, is there in the 4th. Happens in every draft. If you look at the mocks right now, probably as many as 10 of those players mocked in the first, will still be there at 50.

    Mocks, while not generally accurate, do help to give structure to how teams may think in the draft. And certainly do help to slot guys you harbor hopes for on day 2.

    At this stage, definitely the draft pool isn't established. Underclassmen are still filing in. And the combine does help to add additional value in terms of general athleticism. Something that for Seattle we know is important.

    This is usually the time of year that guys I liked at the tail end of R1/R2 start moving up and out of our range.
    Attyla the Hawk
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  • That's a nice mock. Here's my Seahawks mock on first-pick.com

    Your Picks:
    Round 2 Pick 3 (MIA): Javon Kinlaw, DT, South Carolina (A)
    Round 2 Pick 26: KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A-)
    Round 3 Pick 2 (NYJ): DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama (A)
    Round 3 Pick 6 (ARI): Najee Harris, RB, Alabama (A)
    Round 4 Pick 31: Mekhi Becton, OT, Louisville (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 26 (NYJ): Antoine Brooks, FS/SS, Maryland (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 31: Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky (A+)
    hawkfan68
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  • Bryce Hall at the end of the first round would make me happy. Outside of that we need OL and DL
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  • chris98251 wrote:Way to damn early to even start speculating on this $h!t yet let alone what we need and who's available and drafting.


    I agree in terms of pinning down specific names, but i think this is the ideal time to start identifying positions of greatest need, which he did a great job of waking me up to our need for O line on the horizon.

    My biggest concern is where we squeeze in some LBs. We are missing speed at the second level sooo bad and I'd be surprised if Pete and John wait till the fourth to address it.
    Optimus25
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  • Tyler Johnson from Minn will be a very good WR

    Check out his 1st half v. Auburn.
    Uncle Si
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  • Another crack at the Seahawks mock draft on first-pick.com

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 26: Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado (A)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A)
    Round 3 Pick 3 (DET): Xavier McKinney, SS/FS, Alabama (A)
    Round 4 Pick 3 (DET): Michael Onwenu, OG, Michigan (A)
    Round 4 Pick 26: Levonta Taylor, CB, Florida State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 32 (BALT): Zack Moss, RB, Utah (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 25 (DET): Raequan Williams, DT, Michigan State (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 3 (DET): Drew Richmond, OT, USC (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Luke Farrell, TE, Ohio State (A+)
    hawkfan68
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  • Yes, this is Lano's brother. Lavert is smaller than Lano, and projects as a nickel/slot corner in the NFL. He's speedy, has decent ball skills, and has the connection with Lano.


    Lano's contract year is 2020, and he's on the bubble. I support not bringing any immediate family member in.

    We've already set precedent, arguably, via the Shaquem/Shaquill situation. If Shaquill wasn't here, I doubt his brother's on the team this year. Quem has shown promise, but the problem is that there's no natural spot for him under this roster nor do I see Pete creating one by say making him a DE, or putting Quem in for Barton even though Quem was the second on the depth chart.

    If Quem was a normal fifth rounder judged by just football reasons, he'd be waived or at least traded. Having Quill right there makes it harder for the club to do what they normally do, which is judge players strictly on an individual basis.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Yes, this is Lano's brother. Lavert is smaller than Lano, and projects as a nickel/slot corner in the NFL. He's speedy, has decent ball skills, and has the connection with Lano.


    Lano's contract year is 2020, and he's on the bubble. I support not bringing any immediate family member in.

    We've already set precedent, arguably, via the Shaquem/Shaquill situation. If Shaquill wasn't here, I doubt his brother's on the team this year. Quem has shown promise, but the problem is that there's no natural spot for him under this roster nor do I see Pete creating one by say making him a DE, or putting Quem in for Barton even though Quem was the second on the depth chart.

    If Quem was a normal fifth rounder judged by just football reasons, he'd be waived or at least traded. Having Quill right there makes it harder for the club to do what they normally do, which is judge players strictly on an individual basis.


    You have a really odd habit of finding a way to mention Shaquem Griffin in a lot of your posts.
    kobebryant
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:Another crack at the Seahawks mock draft on first-pick.com

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 26: Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado (A)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A)
    Round 3 Pick 3 (DET): Xavier McKinney, SS/FS, Alabama (A)
    Round 4 Pick 3 (DET): Michael Onwenu, OG, Michigan (A)
    Round 4 Pick 26: Levonta Taylor, CB, Florida State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 32 (BALT): Zack Moss, RB, Utah (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 25 (DET): Raequan Williams, DT, Michigan State (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 3 (DET): Drew Richmond, OT, USC (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Luke Farrell, TE, Ohio State (A+)


    I love this website...although it's TOTALLY unrealistic...check this out:

    Your score is: 31252 (GRADE: B-)

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 32 (BALT): Javon Kinlaw, DT, South Carolina (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 29: KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): Kenneth Murray, ILB/OLB, Oklahoma (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 7 (CAR): Solomon Kindley, OG, Georgia (A)
    Round 4 Pick 4 (NYG): Marvin Wilson, DT, Florida State (A)
    Round 4 Pick 26: Jake Hanson, C, Oregon (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 11 (CHI): Ashtyn Davis, FS/SS, California (A)
    Round 6 Pick 21 (CHI): Bradlee Anae, DE/OLB, Utah (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Denzel Mims, WR, Baylor (A+)

    Getting Anae in round 6 and Davis in round 5 is pretty hilarious. I also like how they gave me a B- for this draft. Seriously, I'd literally poop a brick in my undies if our draft fell this way...haha.
    RockinHawks
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  • RockinHawks wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:Another crack at the Seahawks mock draft on first-pick.com

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 26: Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado (A)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A)
    Round 3 Pick 3 (DET): Xavier McKinney, SS/FS, Alabama (A)
    Round 4 Pick 3 (DET): Michael Onwenu, OG, Michigan (A)
    Round 4 Pick 26: Levonta Taylor, CB, Florida State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 32 (BALT): Zack Moss, RB, Utah (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 25 (DET): Raequan Williams, DT, Michigan State (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 3 (DET): Drew Richmond, OT, USC (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Luke Farrell, TE, Ohio State (A+)


    I love this website...although it's TOTALLY unrealistic...check this out:

    Your score is: 31252 (GRADE: B-)

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 32 (BALT): Javon Kinlaw, DT, South Carolina (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 29: KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): Kenneth Murray, ILB/OLB, Oklahoma (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 7 (CAR): Solomon Kindley, OG, Georgia (A)
    Round 4 Pick 4 (NYG): Marvin Wilson, DT, Florida State (A)
    Round 4 Pick 26: Jake Hanson, C, Oregon (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 11 (CHI): Ashtyn Davis, FS/SS, California (A)
    Round 6 Pick 21 (CHI): Bradlee Anae, DE/OLB, Utah (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Denzel Mims, WR, Baylor (A+)

    Getting Anae in round 6 and Davis in round 5 is pretty hilarious. I also like how they gave me a B- for this draft. Seriously, I'd literally poop a brick in my undies if our draft fell this way...haha.

    Or better yet, this ---

    Your score is: 36478 (GRADE: A-)

    Your Picks:
    Round 2 Pick 6 (LAC): Yetur Gross-Matos, DE/OLB, Penn State (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 29: Solomon Kindley, OG, Georgia (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 32 (BALT): KLavon Chaisson, DE/OLB, LSU (B+)
    Round 3 Pick 20 (LAR): Mekhi Becton, OT, Louisville (A)
    Round 3 Pick 32 (BALT): Shane Lemieux, OG, Oregon (A)
    Round 4 Pick 6 (LAC): Marvin Wilson, DT, Florida State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 14 (T.B.): Jordan Love, QB, Utah State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 16 (ATL): Cam Akers, RB, Florida State (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 20 (LAR): Tarik Black, WR, Michigan (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 3 (DET): Ashtyn Davis, FS/SS, California (A)
    Round 5 Pick 11 (CHI): Mustafa Johnson, DT, Colorado (A)
    Round 5 Pick 14 (S.F.): Zack Moss, RB, Utah (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 18 (CHI): Tanner Muse, SS/FS, Clemson (A)
    Round 5 Pick 30 (S.F.): Juwan Johnson, WR, Oregon (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 3 (DET): Bradlee Anae, DE/OLB, Utah (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 14 (T.B.): Deommodore Lenoir, CB, Oregon (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 19 (CHI): Frederick Mauigoa, C, Washington State (A-)
    Round 7 Pick 26: Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky (A+)
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  • kobebryant wrote:You have a really odd habit of finding a way to mention Shaquem Griffin in a lot of your posts.


    He's an interesting person in an unprecedented situation.

    I've been really impressed with seeing his performance on D. The problem is, though, that there doesn't appear to be priority on making him part of the actual DE depth chart, and outright refusal to even rotate him in for Kendricks/Barton. The guy's going into his third year without even a job title.

    And even after his success, all the sudden he's back to special teams with zero defensive snaps.

    This tells me they didn't really know what to do w/him on the D. What he has going into Year 3 of his rookie contract is playing lots of ST while the team struggles with where to put him.

    He's a player whose skill-set doesn't fit our present scheme. I mean, one or the other is going to have to change by this time next year.

    The brothers have made their stance clear: They have always worked out together and lived together as a family value. Where one goes, they both most go. They've pretty much lived that their whole lives. They've made it abundantly clear to national media. Which makes it clear to the organization.

    That right above is my problem with them. The time is coming when the can can't be kicked down the road anymore. Chances are we have a Shaquill we need more than now, and a Shaquem who still doesn't fit fundamental scheme. I'm sure Quill would see any suggestion that he "pay" to keep Quill on as an insult, and adding to that, Quem won't be PS eligible anymore. He will have to occupy a roster spot or be cut, and if it's the latter, there will be more drama. That stems from us giving Quem a chance anyway. Which he wouldn't have gotten without Quill.

    I'm for evaluating players individually, which tnese dynamics make impossible.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:You have a really odd habit of finding a way to mention Shaquem Griffin in a lot of your posts.


    He's an interesting person in an unprecedented situation.

    I've been really impressed with seeing his performance on D. The problem is, though, that there doesn't appear to be priority on making him part of the actual DE depth chart, and outright refusal to even rotate him in for Kendricks/Barton. The guy's going into his third year without even a job title.

    And even after his success, all the sudden he's back to special teams with zero defensive snaps.

    This tells me they didn't really know what to do w/him on the D. What he has going into Year 3 of his rookie contract is playing lots of ST while the team struggles with where to put him.

    He's a player whose skill-set doesn't fit our present scheme. I mean, one or the other is going to have to change by this time next year.

    The brothers have made their stance clear: They have always worked out together and lived together as a family value. Where one goes, they both most go. They've pretty much lived that their whole lives. They've made it abundantly clear to national media. Which makes it clear to the organization.

    That right above is my problem with them. The time is coming when the can can't be kicked down the road anymore. Chances are we have a Shaquill we need more than now, and a Shaquem who still doesn't fit fundamental scheme. I'm sure Quill would see any suggestion that he "pay" to keep Quill on as an insult, and adding to that, Quem won't be PS eligible anymore. He will have to occupy a roster spot or be cut, and if it's the latter, there will be more drama. That stems from us giving Quem a chance anyway. Which he wouldn't have gotten without Quill.

    I'm for evaluating players individually, which tnese dynamics make impossible.



    I totally agree. Frankly, I am underwhelmed by Shaquill anyway. Yes, he improved, but he is not an elite game changing cornerback and I would not give him a huge extension. Shaquem is only here because of Shaquill. The only reason he got DE snaps is our absolute desperation to look for any pass rush. Heck, Shaquem isn't even one of our top special teams players.
    vigilantgrrl
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  • vigilantgrrl wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:You have a really odd habit of finding a way to mention Shaquem Griffin in a lot of your posts.


    He's an interesting person in an unprecedented situation.

    I've been really impressed with seeing his performance on D. The problem is, though, that there doesn't appear to be priority on making him part of the actual DE depth chart, and outright refusal to even rotate him in for Kendricks/Barton. The guy's going into his third year without even a job title.

    And even after his success, all the sudden he's back to special teams with zero defensive snaps.

    This tells me they didn't really know what to do w/him on the D. What he has going into Year 3 of his rookie contract is playing lots of ST while the team struggles with where to put him.

    He's a player whose skill-set doesn't fit our present scheme. I mean, one or the other is going to have to change by this time next year.

    The brothers have made their stance clear: They have always worked out together and lived together as a family value. Where one goes, they both most go. They've pretty much lived that their whole lives. They've made it abundantly clear to national media. Which makes it clear to the organization.

    That right above is my problem with them. The time is coming when the can can't be kicked down the road anymore. Chances are we have a Shaquill we need more than now, and a Shaquem who still doesn't fit fundamental scheme. I'm sure Quill would see any suggestion that he "pay" to keep Quill on as an insult, and adding to that, Quem won't be PS eligible anymore. He will have to occupy a roster spot or be cut, and if it's the latter, there will be more drama. That stems from us giving Quem a chance anyway. Which he wouldn't have gotten without Quill.

    I'm for evaluating players individually, which tnese dynamics make impossible.



    I totally agree. Frankly, I am underwhelmed by Shaquill anyway. Yes, he improved, but he is not an elite game changing cornerback and I would not give him a huge extension. Shaquem is only here because of Shaquill. The only reason he got DE snaps is our absolute desperation to look for any pass rush. Heck, Shaquem isn't even one of our top special teams players.


    Once again hating on Shaq?
    getnasty
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  • No one's hating on Quill or Quem. I'm just suggesting that they need to be evaluated as individuals first.

    Quill has 45 tackles so far for 2019; Quem three. By comparison, Ansah has 12 tackles, 2.5 sacks, two FF. It'd be interesting to see how many snaps each got and how they did there, but I cannot find that stat.

    Now, this doesn't mean Quem's a bad player. He has the shiftiness and speed to throw opponents off, but he's too small to finish it himself. Is that worth re-tuning at least the front four so that this help will be available? I can't say yes or no, but that's a decision that will have to be made.

    Having siblings on the same team just makes it harder to make these decisions, because after all, a team is not your family. A team is a workplace in which eventually everyone is let go.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • First......I do not hate on the Griffen's. In fact when Shaquem was at UCF, I watched those games and admired his dominant performances, especially in the bowl game against Auburn where he was rightfully the MVP. But college success does not always translate to NFL success. I compare Shaquem to Michael Sam, who also did not make it in the NFL. Shaquem is a tweener .....too small for the D-line and even a bit small for linebacker. So far he has shown little on special teams as well, unlike the rookies Amadi and Homer. So .....where do you put him????

    As I said NFL success is not guaranteed for even top flight College players. I absolutely LOVE the Huskies and was elated when the hawks drafted BBK. An all American Linebacker, and a tackling machine. However, because of his size, he will most likely not ever be a starting LB for the hawks. What BBK will be however is a solid special teams player who can also play linebacker in an emergency situation. Quem cannot even be trusted to play Linebacker. BBK is a solid value for the 5th round pick we gave up for him. Our special teams unit was dreadful last year and a lot of us wanted to get rid of the ST coach. This year, statistically, our Special Teams have improved dramatically. I attribute that to some of the draft capital we invested.

    As for Shaquill, I never was a fan of the pick in a cornerback rich draft. His first year was meh, and the second year was horrid. While many here are touting this year as a great one, I say yes, he improved but he still gives up huge plays.....and not one pick this year. I know that interceptions are not everything but they are important. In our LOB days we were known for game changing turnovers on top of Sherm shutting down half the field. We need turnovers now, because our running control the clock game is not a given with the Carson and Penny season ending injuries. Defense needs to make big plays to help us score now. Shaq with only 3 interceptions in 3 years is not top flight CB.

    As for the whole twin thing....THIS is what has turned me off to them. There have been other sets of brothers in the NFL. The Long brothers for example. Tiki and Ronde Barber are twins. They played on different teams. The Barbers, and the Longs were also great players. I think Shaquill is an OK, but not elite CB that can play in the NFL. I do not think Shaquem is an NFL quality player (or at best he is a borderline player). I absolutely do not like the implied media campaign the brothers are doing promoting the idea that they need to live together and play together. It is a horrible dynamic, and I would not be surprised if it could lead to resentment in the future from the hawks that have to COMPETE for their jobs. And I think when it comes to contract extension time, that Shaquill is going to demand a roster spot for his twin.
    vigilantgrrl
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  • Exactly ViglantGrrl. You can add to your list Joey Bosa (Chargers) and Nick Bosa (49ers). Or Mike Pouncey (Chargers) and Maurkice Pouncey (Steelers). No harm in bros coming into NFL, but really, they should be on separate teams to avoid nepotism and conflicts around this. Which is why there aren't any.

    I think on some level the Griffins know this, and that's why they keep promoing their "story" to LMN, PopCulture, 60 Minutes and the mainstream of people who do not really follow football stats.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • Najee Harris is going back to Alabama for 2020

    Poo
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Looking forward to draft season. Seattle is in a good position to add a few pieces to push them further towards having a legitimate championship roster. Currently, they're 10-3 and outperforming their level of talent on paper, as is typical of Pete Carroll teams. However, the point differential is really close - tons of nailbiter games.

    Carroll and Schneider are likely going to have a late first, as well as 2 late seconds to play around with. Here's how I think they use them. Draft position estimates are based off the list here: https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/seattle/38/


    TRADE: Round 1, Pick 30 traded to Lions for 37, 112, 176.

    Round 2, Pick 37 (from Detroit): Mekhi Becton, OT, Louisville.

    Image

    Let me start by saying that if Becton lasts until 37, it'll be because someone like Alex Leatherwood declared and was taken ahead of Becton.

    Becton is a monster of a man - 6'7", 369. Long 'n' strong. He's playing left tackle for the Cardinals, but here he's slotting in at right tackle to replace Ifedi, who leaves in free agency. Becton is strong, tough, and for the most part he's reliable, only missing a few games due to injury. He comes off as a good guy in interviews. He's improved from 2018. He keeps a decent amount of agility for a man of his size. He seems to struggle with stunts, but he can be coached out of that.

    I expect Seattle to go tackle with their first pick. They've never been shy about investing in the offensive line, and Becton fits with the identity of the team. If he ends up lasting until the top of the second, pull the trigger and call it a day. Let him duke it out with Jamarco for RT.


    Round 2, Pick 58: Kenny Willekes, Edge, Michigan State

    Image

    Exorcising the demons from the last time they picked a Spartan defensive lineman... we go with the anti-McDowell, Kenny Willekes. A guy who went from walk-on, to one of the more productive defenders in the country. He just won the Burlsworth Trophy as the nation's top walk-on player. He was the 2018 Big 10 DL of the Year. He's all over the place draft stock wise... not a top-100 prospect according to CBS. I suspect he will rise.

    He's not the most athletic player - but he's going to test better than Collier did. His motor is high-revving, and he plays at redline. Does not give up. Not a huge liability in the run game, effort doesn't dip on run plays, plays with discipline. I suspect his pressure numbers (specifically the pressure rate stat that PC/JS seem to put significant stock in to) will look good, in most part due to his motor. Footwork is clean, pass rush moves are just adequate and he would benefit by adding some nuance to his moves as they can be somewhat predictable. In college, a lot of his wins come when he's unblocked. He's solid, though. A leader.


    Round 2, Pick 62: Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky

    Image

    Another lineman, yeah. Iupati is gone after this year, Britt and Fluker are strong cut candidates, Ifedi is almost certainly gone in free agency. Realistically, the line could lose every starter that isn't Duane Brown. This is going to be a need.

    Stenberg is NASTY. Not "bad human being" nasty - he's likely going to interview well, and he's a guy who loves football, but this guy plays with a crazy mean streak. He lives solely to pancake, he drives guys into the ground, he plays with strength - he's a straight up mean b!@ch on the gridiron. If you give him a shot, he comes away with one of the starting guard spots I bet.

    If there is a worry, it's that he has a high change to draw a few more holding/unnecessary roughness calls than average. But I bet he pisses opposing defenders off enough to draw a few calls himself to even it out.

    He came into the season a UDFA, he's rising, will probably end up day 2 with an outside shot to skyrocket into day 1. I absolutely love this dude, and heavy investment on the line will be needed. Becton and Stenberg together in the same draft haul would be amazing. Seriously, watch his tape, it's fun stuff.


    Round 3, Pick 103 (Compensatory): Najee Harris, RB, Alabama

    Image

    Don't get me wrong, I think Pete Carroll loves Chris Carson.

    I also think he'd love Najee Harris.

    We've seen before that the Seahawks will hedge their bet at running back with draft capital - they loved Carson, but still selected Penny in the 1st round. Penny, despite not being the main workhorse, has missed a fair amount of time and is now out for the remainder of the season. Carroll views rushing as sort of the heart and soul of the team. I'm sure he's really wishing he had another back right now.

    Harris doesn't fumble often. He's productive. He has upside in the passing game, and bear in mind Schottenheimer has mentioned he wants to target rushers more in the pass game. Najee has a mean stiff arm and hurdle - kinda like Carson. Big guy who can rush with power, has a serviceable juke move, and can hit a hole with conviction. Harris seems like a guy who'd fit right in.

    Round 4, Pick 112 (From Detroit): Lavert Hill, CB, Michigan

    Image

    Yes, this is Lano's brother. Lavert is smaller than Lano, and projects as a nickel/slot corner in the NFL. He's speedy, has decent ball skills, and has the connection with Lano. I'm worried that he gets a bit too handsy and may draw some flags, but otherwise I think he has potential to be one of the better nickel corners in the league and think Seattle may specifically target a smaller corner for the role to replicate the success they had with Justin Coleman. He'll probably compete with Amadi, who likely has a roster spot regardless due to his versatility and special teams play.

    TRADE: Seattle trades up to 113, giving up 136, 162, and 249.

    Round 4: Pick 113: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota


    Image

    I've got Tyler Johnson falling here due to underwhelming testing. He's a guy who can get open and make some really nice catches. Doesn't miss much due to injury. Team player, smart kid who stayed in school to get his degree. Biggest knock is that he doesn't have elite speed. If he falls, I think he's a player worth trading up for.


    Round 4, Pick 145 (Compensatory): Willie g** Jr., LB, Mississippi State


    Image

    Willie has a character red flag - he was suspended for violating team rules this earlier this season. However, he is respected by his teammates and brings energy to his defense. He has speed and some playmaking ability, but needs to work on taking better angles to ballcarriers. He grades out fantastically in coverage, so if Pete continues to have such a boner for base defense, his zone prowess will come in handy. If he interviews well and the suspension was more of a one time mistake than an indicator of persistent irresponsibility, he will probably rise higher than this. If he does have some maturity issues, he's worth the risk and will be going to a solid locker room in Seattle. Son of former Steeler CB William g**.



    This is a fun draft class.



    The Seahawk draft blog has a good write up of your boy Logan Stenberg.
    justafan
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  • getnasty wrote:Bryce Hall at the end of the first round would make me happy. Outside of that we need OL and DL



    Its like you read my mind.

    We need to shore up our run defense.

    P1 Bryce Hall CB
    P2 Davon Hamilton DT
    P3 Bradlee Anae DE
    P4 Cole Kmet TE
    P5 Jeremy Chinn S
    P6 OT
    My first four.
    Last edited by Chawker on Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
    Chawker
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  • We need to flip the script this year, and trade up for Isaiah Simmons. He will be big time in the NFL.
    CPHawk
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  • Spit balling early on but looking and trying to place where we pick and rankings of players and projections without trades.


    1st round - John Simpson OG Clemson

    2nd round Tyler Biadasz, C, Wisconsin

    2nd round (lower of two picks between KC Chiefs and SF 49ers) Carlos Davis DT Nebraska

    3rd round (compensatory for losing Earl Thomas) Terrence Steele OT Texas Tech University

    4th round - Kylin Hill RB Mississippi State

    4th round (compensatory for losing Justin Coleman) Dominick Wood-Anderson TE Tennessee

    5th round - Kyle Dugger SS Lenoir-Rhyne

    5th round (from Steelers) Curtis Weaver DE Boise State

    6th round (compensatory for losing Shamar Stephen) Darnay Holmes CB Nickel UCLA

    7th round (compensatory for losing Mike Davis) Myles Bryant CB Nickel University of Washington
    chris98251
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  • chris chris chris. 5 out of your first 6 picks are offensive players, Lets say we need some defensive help and try to at least pick'em a little more fair and balanced. K!
    Chawker
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  • Chawker wrote:chris chris chris. 5 out of your first 6 picks are offensive players, Lets say we need some defensive help and try to at least pick'em a little more fair and balanced. K!


    We seem to get good interior guys in F.A. our O line needs bodies that don't need a ambulance to get to and from the field, I had the defense covered in skill positions later also.

    We also have Red Shirts in the wings on Defense like Christmas.
    chris98251
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  • Chawker wrote:chris chris chris. 5 out of your first 6 picks are offensive players, Lets say we need some defensive help and try to at least pick'em a little more fair and balanced. K!


    I'm entirely convinced this is how you end up starving your team of talent over time.

    No draft is equal in quality. Every one is different. Just taking a 1st round defensive player doesn't mean you get first round value from them. If it's lousy for defense, then you're essentially getting bad return on your pick.

    And that over time manifests itself into low overall team quality as well as creating future holes on your roster that needs filling. One, for the player you picked that didn't measure up, and more for the other players that move on or decline that you should have picked in advance but didn't.

    I have no problem following the talent where it lies in the draft. If we get two quality interior OL, that means we aren't paying cast off veterans 3-4M a year. That's cap space that can fill other holes. Or be used to absorb mid season trades for quality vets elsewhere (Diggs, Clowney, Coleman etc.).

    Ultimately, using the draft to fill needs is logically stupid. Because talent isn't ever linear. In fact it's horribly variable. Teams that do so, intentionally get less quality players out of the draft because one is almost guaranteed to take a lesser quality player early in the draft relative to what's still available if they do so based on what they have on the roster instead of what's on the board.

    This is how you get replacement level journeyman talent early in the draft. It's a central component to how one drafts busts year after year.

    I would add, that on day 3, that's where it's useful to add for need. Because the delta in talent between players tends to rapidly smooth out. Virtually every player in this range ends up being valuable based on development and fit. Not necessarily by their inherent talent. Teams are *supposed* to gather replacement level players in this range.
    Attyla the Hawk
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  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    Chawker wrote:chris chris chris. 5 out of your first 6 picks are offensive players, Lets say we need some defensive help and try to at least pick'em a little more fair and balanced. K!


    I'm entirely convinced this is how you end up starving your team of talent over time.

    No draft is equal in quality. Every one is different. Just taking a 1st round defensive player doesn't mean you get first round value from them. If it's lousy for defense, then you're essentially getting bad return on your pick.

    And that over time manifests itself into low overall team quality as well as creating future holes on your roster that needs filling. One, for the player you picked that didn't measure up, and more for the other players that move on or decline that you should have picked in advance but didn't.

    I have no problem following the talent where it lies in the draft. If we get two quality interior OL, that means we aren't paying cast off veterans 3-4M a year. That's cap space that can fill other holes. Or be used to absorb mid season trades for quality vets elsewhere (Diggs, Clowney, Coleman etc.).

    Ultimately, using the draft to fill needs is logically stupid. Because talent isn't ever linear. In fact it's horribly variable. Teams that do so, intentionally get less quality players out of the draft because one is almost guaranteed to take a lesser quality player early in the draft relative to what's still available if they do so based on what they have on the roster instead of what's on the board.

    This is how you get replacement level journeyman talent early in the draft. It's a central component to how one drafts busts year after year.

    I would add, that on day 3, that's where it's useful to add for need. Because the delta in talent between players tends to rapidly smooth out. Virtually every player in this range ends up being valuable based on development and fit. Not necessarily by their inherent talent. Teams are *supposed* to gather replacement level players in this range.



    People wonder why we can't score in the first half of games and our defense is one of the lowest in the League. This is the logic behind the formula. Be proud of your mistakes.
    Chawker
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    Location: corner of 40th & plum.




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